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[Jennine] If there’s any concerns about recording the meeting this is an opportunity to let us know now it is something we like to share with our community by posting it on our website okay before we get started I’ll just read our land acknowledgement um so we’d like to do that at the beginning of our events to recognize our indigenous culture here in Canada and just take a moment so york university recognizes that many Indigenous people have long relationships with the territories upon which York University campuses are located that precede the establishment of York University, York University acknowledges its presence on the traditional territory of many Indigenous nations the area known as Tkaronto (Toronto) has been care taken by the Anishinabek nation the Haudenosaunee confederacy and the Huron Wendat it is now home to many first nation Inuit and Metis communities we acknowledge the current treaty holders the Mississauga’s of the credit first nation, the Mississauga’s of the credit first nation this territory is subject to the Dish With One Spoon Wampum belt covenant an agreement to peaceably share and care for the Great Lakes Region so we have a Peace who is a course rep with us who will start this session today by reading one of her poems.
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[Peace] Hello, hello
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[Jennine] There you are. Yes, we can hear you okay you mind just telling us a little bit about yourself before you begin.
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[Peace] Oh definitely so my name is Peace, I got my first degree in nursing here at York University but then I wanted to change my career path so came back here and so I’m a course representative for a global health class I’m a global health student um I enjoy writing poems and I enjoy storytelling and I can recognize some people here monique was actually my professor for statistics two years ago.
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[Jennine] wonderful well thank you very much for volunteering to start our session off today with one of your poems.
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[Peace] thank you okay so the name of this poem is called “Know Us by Our Name” okay okay. know us by our name let it be known people of the world I stand tall on the back of my ancestor’s bright eyed head full of hair mind full of weight conspiring with the heavens and with the forces of nature paving way for the noun and for the black girls who come after me i stand i stand tall with my cotton hair and full lips and deep dark skin neither staying nor viewing i stand here now in the fullness of all that i am my spells running through my veins i stand here with an anatomy made up of those before me like the storm that we are like the sword fought from the fiery breath of the creator i stand let it be known people of the world i stand here using of magic liquid of excellence of boldness i stand here fully human fully woman and fully black thank you.
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[Jennine] Thank you very much for sharing um I know you have I’ve read some of your other poems they’re beautiful.
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[Peace] thank you
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[Jenninet] and I hope to set the tone for today’s discussion invitation together
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[Peace] Thank you
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[Jennine] Thank you, um so I’ll briefly introduce the three presenters we have with us today so Monique many uh Dr. Herbert many you know and she’s a welcome addition to our department for how many years now seven eight years
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[Monique] uh like five
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[Jennine] Within five years Monique has been inspiring and just a champion of so many things for our undergrad and graduate students so we’re very lucky to have her and also to share her talents with cali may so she’s an assistant professor teaching stream in the department of psychology at york and she predominantly teaches statistics and program evaluation she was recognized in 2016 with the distinguished contributions to teaching award for her deep commitment and outstanding contribution to teaching which i’ve heard many many students comment on in faculty they appreciate her support in addition to her teaching she focuses focuses on undergraduate student success in and out of the classroom academic integrity development development and effective learning strategies to support the teaching of statistics she is a faculty lead membership liaison with the black students and psychology association which is also present here today so thank you Monique for joining us today. Uh, Bri Darbor, uh Darboh, am I saying it right Bri?
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[Bri Darboh] It’s Darboh.
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[Jennine] Darboh, thank you, thank you is the full-time doctoral student in clinical neuropsychology at york university and a part-time MBA student specializing in health industry management and organized site organization studies at the Schulich school of business her doctoral research is focusing on utilizing experimental performance-based measures well-established neurocognitive tests and neuroimaging methods to explore the neuropsychological correlates of high order cognition in young and older adults she aspires to synthesize the research and clinical skills obtained through neuropsycho- neuropsychological training with a specialized knowledge and leadership skills developed through her MBA studies which is a very unique combination in order to develop a special fusion of expertise and allow her to better serve the healthcare industry so Bri thank you for joining us again as well today and Najma did I say that correctly?
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[Najma] Yes, you did.
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[Jennine] the student writer, uh is a student writer and community engagement coordinator whose work centers on queerness blackness and anti-oppression so thanks again for all three of you joining us and thank you very much for the audience who’s joined us today as well i’ll pass it over to Monique who will be a moderator for today’s panel.
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[Monique] okay thank you so much to Jennine, Mazen and the Calumet and Stong team for allowing us to have this opportunity and this space to talk openly about the black experience it is much appreciated and so what i want to do today is i’m going to set the stage a bit some of the things i’m going to say will probably be a little bit more general just to kind of get thoughts going and start the conversation i’ll then pass it over to Bri to enlighten us because i know she will do that and over to Najma to bring up the rare before we begin to open it up for our general conversation um i think that uh for those uh who don’t know me it’s really important that i just situate myself as it relates to the idea of the black experience and i’m sorry probably looking over here because i do have like my tablet open because um today i’m actually going to be just utilizing the 10 minutes that’s given to me as opposed to just keep going um i can talk a lot so Bri can you please make sure that you put the brakes on me so i can hand it over to you uh so just to talk a little bit about my background um i certainly um am an immigrant to canada i started in barbados predominantly a black society and i moved to canada to be able to pursue my graduate studies um my master’s only and then somehow i continued on to my phd and now i’m here and so one of the things that i want to talk about and why i’m situating myself in in that space is because obviously uh starting off um my experience has been in primarily a predominantly black society but of course then moving on to um canada and being in university space um that it was then that really sort of uh brought out the idea that in that space then i was more visible which obviously makes sense because in many instances in many rooms in many courses i was the only black person and um that certainly was something that um as a new person come into this country and navigating the system for the first time that was something that on top of that i had to deal with um fast forward to um once i uh completed my graduate studies i immediately started to teach at the higher education level at my past institution and now here at york and with that there was sort of a deep reflection that had to occur in sense of um i really had to figure out what was my role in this conversation about the black experience particularly now that i’m in a position where um students see me in sort of in different ways sort of part of the hierarchy part of a position of power because you know i’m part of a course i’m a professor in that course and in other situations as well and first furthermore because for many students walking into a classroom i would hear you were my only black professor or you’re the only person that has taught me thus far that has um has been black and that really resonated because that takes on a different meaning and different connotation in terms of how you actually navigate that space and of course as you move through the ranks of as you progress in your career and other parts of life and you go into different spaces then more and more again that idea of being more visible is obviously very much apparent and so a lot of um the conversations i’ve had over the past um i think more so the last past year first few months has been around through my interaction with um the black student psychology association where that started with um i don’t know if kojo’s here but kojo um chatted with me about um being featured on the wall for black history month around february well it’s actually a standing wall in the – for the department of psychology and then um being asked by Jean who’s here now who’s the president to um give an interview about my experience as the only black professor in the psychology program and then that translated into us having a town hall in october, as recent as last month a um mental health panel and now today and i want to sort of talk a little bit about some of the themes that came out of those sessions because i think that’s really important um in terms of thinking about the space that we’ve um and and sort of the topics that we’ve been discussing so far it’s a lot of extension around things like not enough representation at the university level in other words i want to see myself in some of these people in these spaces um supports for black students to succeed and that is based if you’re thinking about it how are we helping these students to stay in the pipeline so we want to see them succeeding and having certain outcomes at students to stay in the pipeline so we want to see them succeeding and having certain outcomes at the other end and being employable but if they’re following the pipeline because they don’t have any progress to uh to um progression to success then how are we going to be able to do that um and then it sort of talks about sort of dealing with microaggressions and and sort of racism especially when it’s that person is a position of power so that can be in the workplace it could be the student professor hierarchy it can be a number of different spaces um how do we ask for help was one that resonated more recently as well um and that help is navigating the system help in terms of from others in the community outside the community more allies a whole that’s sort of a is a sort of very broad kind of question but it’s actually one that i’ll talk a little bit about more later and then one that’s super important is how do you take care of ourselves i certainly have that question last time about what am i doing to take care of myself and i think we have a similar question like what are we doing to take care of ourselves so that we can continue to to push forward um and then how do we continue the conversation so this is one part of continuing the conversation and that’s why i’m really grateful to Stong and Calumet for allowing me to have this space and so part of what i’m hoping for today is that we can have our conversation about the black experience widely but also on a focus on how we actually take care of ourselves and so one quote that i want to start with is very simple you listen to yourself more than anybody else and that quote resonates with me because a lot of um how we kind of live today sort of you know as a person of colour a black person however we kind of choose to define that is we walk around sometimes with a lot of heaviness and a lot of what i call mess around how we’re perceived um whether we accept it in certain spaces and so on and so forth and that is on top of all the other things that we already have to deal with as just being a part of the human race and so a lot of what um i think that you know is really becoming important for me in terms of my role and how i can help to sort of shape this black experience is more around that’s why out of empowerment well-being and and and mobilization because part of it is how are we helping each other to really understand who we are as people internally so that some of that external mess does not have as much of an impact on our lives but it’s not to say that it won’t have an impact but the idea is how much of it are we allowing to dominate our life so that we can actually continue to push forward and operate in this space and so one thing that i’m going to do Bri what’s my time right now because you know i’m going to keep going because i’m fired now yeah 10 minutes seven minutes okay i’m gonna take the last three minutes because i’m fired now yeah 10 minutes seven minutes okay i’m gonna take the last three minutes to say what i gotta say and then i’m gonna hand it over to you because we can talk about this more um and so the other piece that i just want to talk about is as it relates to being a, a black woman and i’m going to to situate that in this idea of the label of a strong black woman and and and part of that is that brings with it all kinds of different happiness and mass i’m going to call it that right now and for me it’s about what does that really mean um how much burden or happiness does that label carry with it um what is expected of this strong black woman um is this woman allowed to show vulnerability vulnerability or be vulnerable um when that burden is too heavy to carry um you know it’s like the person who’s branded in society has been a role model when they didn’t ask for it kind of situation and so i think that part of what some of the things that we need to do is to sort of begin to sort of look also very much internally as well as externally and have those conversations almost like side by side because yes there’s all of this sort of stuff happening externally but how are we also taking care of ourselves internally so that we can continue to thrive as we as expected okay i’m going to pause and i’m going to hand it over to you Bri because i think i’ve said my part more generally but uh take it away.
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[Bri Darboh] All right, thank you so much for that Monique it was a perfect segue into a lot of what I’d like to talk about briefly my overarching goal for my little spiel is kind of to provide everyone with a sense of empowerment of moving towards greater feelings of self-efficacy of a genuine belief in your own abilities and your potential so um as as Jennine mentioned i’m a third year phd student in clinical neuropsychology and i’m also an mba student my parents on the other hand are traditional ghanians who came to canada as adults with their education in hand and it was ultimately rendered useless they had to start completely all over again to make something of themselves i mean i can’t pretend to know exactly what that experience is like but a lot of the themes that were rife in their experiences in the past and that they continue to experience are very much in parallel to what i’m going through and what i will continue to face as I move to move through throughout my journey um professionally and educationally so throughout my journey i often am the only black or one of the few black women or people in the room in any educational or professional environment that i find myself in and i often get asked by my peers or by others who are looking to pursue higher education like what’s your secret to success and the idea is that they they want to know what’s my secret to overcoming all of the systemic barriers that are in place that are insidiously acting upon us every single day and the answer is that there really isn’t any magic ingredient here besides a belief in myself and a recognition at the same time of the context that i’m operating in you know what i mean by this is that as black people we are born into a world of prejudgment of prejudice of discrimination of people constantly trying to fit us neatly into boxes that are aligned with whatever their perception of a black person is and the issue is that these barriers exist and we often let them sort of steer us towards this belief that we therefore have no control over the outcomes of our lives i don’t want to deny that these barriers exist i would be absolutely inaccurate to do so they indisputably are there and are constantly trying to get in the way of us progressing but i want to encourage uh reframing or a redefining of ourselves i can look to an array of external factors as i reflect on my journey and as i continue to progress through my journey about all of the ways that the system or other barriers have gotten in the way of me accomplishing my goals or have at least tried to but really as a black woman in a predominantly white field i’ve really found that one of the biggest obstacles that has been in my way is myself and i want to explain what i mean by that and some of you may be familiar with this concept but i’ll briefly explain explain there’s a social psychological concept called a self-fulfilling prophecy and the idea is that our expectations about how others may perceive us cause us to then act in a manner that’s consistent with these expectations so it kind of forms a vicious cycle where our deeply held assumptions become our actual reality so as a black professional maybe i might walk into a room of other equally or less qualified others and immediately feel like inferior feel like my opinions are devalued feel like i am a bit of an imposter and the reason is that we look around the room like Monique was saying and a lot of the time people don’t really look much like us it’s like there’s evidence in the environment around us based on the represented people in the professions we aim to pursue that people like us don’t make it we might feel that people automatically discount our merit or don’t believe that we deserve to to be on that team with them and how might that cause us to behave any ideas as to what those sort of feelings of prejudgment of having to having no chance to prove yourself almost might then make you behave in those contexts all right well what i’m getting at here is that it might make us then walk into a room as a more dimmed down or a less confident version of our best selves and then maybe people really will perceive us as less intelligent or less qualified or that non-merit-based addition to the team so what i’m saying is that we need to get out of our own way one of the biggest obstacles to success and not to discount the systemic barriers in place is ourselves as a person of visible minority status that inner self-critic that tells us that because we’re black we will be devalued and although there are plenty of opportunities out there those opportunities aren’t made for people like us and i think that distancing myself from those assumptions is something that i really learned to do i don’t walk into a room as just a black woman or as a child of Kenyan immigrant parents i walk into a room as myself as an individual as my personal identity separate from my social identities as Bri and in doing so it gives me that confidence to then sort of reach my full potential and shine in those contexts rather than trying to concede to the expectations i assume are in place for me accepting that we lack control in the outcomes of our lives because of the rigid systemic factors that are in place does not have to be your narrative that is the main takeaway I’d like to leave everyone with and i really think that it’s important advice that maybe seems obvious but people don’t often consider to be your narrative that is the main takeaway I’d like to leave everyone with and I really think that it’s important advice that maybe seems obvious but people don’t often consider it’s so important to try your best not to fall victim to your own self-fulfilling prophecies don’t dim your light because you assume others have already done it for you and try to get out of your own way in order to succeed and of course these are words and it’s so much easier said than done but i think that it’s important for us to come together as a community with each other and with allies as we’re doing here today to really bolster each other’s sense of confidence and of perceived competence we need to start these uncomfortable conversations and not just start them but keep these conversations going we have to lift each other up so that we may be less likely to fall victim to these self-fulfilling prophecies and so that we can become less fearful of having the courage to attempt to break those barriers that we think are sort of insurmountable obstacles in the way and i believe that formats like this these sort of platforms are a wonderful first step towards those sort of goals so i’ll leave it at that and then i’ll turn it back to Monique.
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[Monique] Awesome, um i’ll kind of leave questions a little bit till after if there are any questions but I’ll turn over to Najma um so she can uh go now.
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[Najma] Thank you, thank you uh thank you so much for that uh Bri and Monique that was really wonderful to hear for me as a black undergrad myself a recent graduate rather um so yeah I’ll tell you guys a little bit about myself um i studied world literature um in vancouver at sfu and i transferred to york because i decided I wanted to pursue psychology instead um yeah I can relate to a lot of the things that both Monique and um saying um i also have two immigrant parents um and they both very much like stress the value of importance or is the value of education to me like from a really young age but also were very clear about the fact that i would have a particularly difficult time navigating academia as a black woman my dad was uh he studied history actually at york as well um and he would always say like you’re going to work twice as hard for half as much which I think is kind of like a common saying in the black community um so yeah I definitely feel like I’ve been navigating academia for quite a while and um it I have never had a black professor um and i feel like at york we’re really lucky to have a a very like rich cultural student body like there are a lot of different there are a lot of black people there are a lot of black students and a lot of students from like like all over the world but um that isn’t reflected in our professors and that i think can be a really like isolating experience especially when um you’re like interested in going to grad school and you like know that you have to make these connections with professors so that you can like get letters of recommendation or like you know like navigating creating relationships with people who might not have so much in common with you has definitely been like a fairly in many ways like a fairly isolating experience so what i have found to be helpful is that um i try to seek out connections with black people within academia in the ways that i can so like working on projects with fellow black students or like doing things like this um or like joining clubs or groups that are um that you know have black people in them who are having similar experiences to me makes like navigating um the university which is like an inherently colonial and white supremacist institution um less isolating i find um and then also what I have found that’s been really helpful for me is to try to make connections with like professors who may not be black but may have some point of um commonality in their identity in some way so like there are some professors who like don’t come from wealth or like who are first generation um uh like who are the first person in their family to get a degree um and we’ll like share something about that in class so i try to like find ways to um undo the isolating nature of navigating these spaces but again of course that’s like like an added burden in the black experience obviously as a student but um that has been like for me those have been like the ways that i alleviate some of the um hardship that hardships that are thrust upon me as a black woman navigating um academia and then i also um write i’m also a writer i write for magazine and something that i find like really fulfilling and helpful i guess not necessarily specifically to do with academia just like as a human being and as a black person um there’s i’m sure you guys have heard that quote um that tony morrison said that something along the lines of like if you like when you get free it’s your job to free somebody else so in my writing um my writing always centers on highlighting black artists or highlighting black creatives who otherwise might not have their work engaged with um and like creating space and a platform for blackness within like this um magazine and like this it’s very like dominantly white um but again i also think about that the ways in which black people and black women specifically um who enter who have the privilege of entering those kinds of spaces do take on the burden of um providing those opportunities and creating the you know like we see here with like Dr. Herbert and Bri like putting on this amazing um event it’s like my hope is that we can get to a place where like non-black people can start taking on the burden of doing that work within those institutions because black people already have so many burdens thrust upon them but yeah um so i’m just i’m really glad to be here and excited to hear everybody speak and i think that’s all i have to say and just thank you so much for inviting me to share
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[Monique] Okay, that’s uh that’s amazing uh thank you as well um this has been uh i i feel like eye-opening like i feel like we all have these different perspectives but at the same time we all have similar experiences in some form or fashion and even though though we might articulate very differently i think that a lot of us are trying to find ways to really um sort of navigate the space but also make it work for us um which in and of itself is is is a burden and the burden and i wonder if there’s anybody else you might want to at this point share or join in this conversation with us at this point um or have any questions? Go, Jean, why are you smiling? Actually we do, we do, we should be hearing from a black male. So, I feel like you’re absolutely the next person that you go.
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[Jean] hey uh I totally agree to be quite honest uh looking at them i’m just i’m just going through the audience members I think Neil is the only one-
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[Monique] He’s just, he’s just he’s just in my house right now that’s my little cousin he can say hi.
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[Jean] Otherwise, I totally understand okay guys I’m going to introduce myself for those who haven’t met me who don’t know me yet i am Jean. Jean-Marc Moke who is the current president of bisip Monique did talk about me in passing um we have a little funny story with Monique but you know i’ll gloss over that for now to just say you know for me i totally understand and i relate one hundred percent to the same stories that Najma, Bri have brought forward being you know one of the only black people in spaces where you only see white people and not seeing that representation at the at the faculty level is very disheartening and it does sort of shorten i guess the the inspiration one can have to get to that sort of level especially if you do want to get there so for me i do also want to point out that one thing that people don’t really say about uh black people is that we do tend to prototype ourselves like Bri was trying to say we prototype ourselves into these stereotypes but we are also very different as a group there are individuals who do different things especially themselves very differently even though they do all have the same or share the same sort of purpose and goal black people are not homogeneous and it tends to be we’re not a monolith yes exactly we tend to be grouped together and then not only do we tend to be grouped together by others we do that to ourselves as well and then when you know we don’t feel like okay well we see ourselves there we feel like okay that’s me excluding myself from that situation because it’s not something that me, as a black person with these prototypical stereotype um characteristics can fit into but forgetting that you are also a different person from everybody else around you you have to be that person wherever you go in any situation and if you think that you don’t have what it takes to be you know there you can lift somebody else up and be the change that you want to be that’s all i’m trying to say here and that’s for me that’s what i did when i started bsip with kojo and it just it just struck a chord for me uh listening to what Najma had to say about you know being or seeing sort of that lack of representation but still being able to express yourself in a certain way it it struck it it just really highlights that point that black people are not a monolith we are very different and we do express ourselves in different ways but we need everybody to know that as well and it starts with us so that that’s what i had to say um.
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[Monique] Thank you, thank you Jean. I believe uh Nyiesha you wanted to go next.
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[Nyiesha] Yes, can you hear me?
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[Monique] I can hear you.
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[Nyiesha] Awesome. So, hi everyone my name is Nyiesha i’m a past student under Monique uh right now i’m currently working as a data scientist at rogers communication so i attended york in 2014 as a psychology and biology student and towards the end of my undergrad i found interested in coding and decided to pursue it there and do a master’s degree at Rottman um but you know while i was able to find my passion it did not come easy as i had to endure like many hardships specifically i had challenges with my color and adapting to new environments that were less diverse and less inclusive um so like upon taking courses like directly to data science i had to face counsel instances of discrimination and prejudice in certain courses i would be the only black person and as a result people would not want to collaborate or be friends with me and would stick with their own and i’ll give an example like i was told by classmates that why they sit together is because they have more in common and i wouldn’t understand them personallybut they did not take the time to get to know me before making that conclusion um i was also like because of my color people assumed i was incompetent and unintelligent despite being in the same course in programs um in those courses i was even also getting great marks as well and you know these instances of prejudice and discrimination followed me up until grad school and now in the workforce rather than prejudice and discrimination being um the only issue we have a clear discrepancy in the amount of black people in the tech industry i began to notice that if i directly made these occurrences affect me it would stop me from actually keeping my goals and improving my skills i also realized that an important trait to have is a voice that is an essential part in making change happen when i find and see instances of prejudice i speak up and voice my concerns as well um i’m trying my best to help create awareness in the tech industry about black people about helping us being paid equally um also with like having higher roles in positions because as you guys mentioned i want to see um someone who’s above me also being black I only work with white people only and it’ll be great to see more diversity in the tech industry and i feel like if we keep speaking up and vocalizing this um it will help um spread awareness and i’m looking forward to being a voice as much as i can and um really loved what you had to say Bri it was really great um i correlate with you when you know having parents who did not um uh you know do the same route that we did and had to endure many struggles so um thank you for having me here everyone um it’s been great so far thank you.
0:36:08.640,0:36:16.880
[Monique] Okay, awesome I think Eva you had your hand up at some point and uh i’m just sort of sort of came back to you um do you still want to chat are you installing a talk
0:36:19.280,0:37:54.000
[Eva] Hi, um i was just going to make a comment to what we’ve been talking about in terms of a lack of representation of people of color specifically black people in academia i’m in my first year of my master’s program and what i i’m an interdisciplinary study student and from what i have experienced thus far i’ve noticed that there really is a lack of representation of people that i feel i can relate to um in our program and what i thought was really interesting upon realizing this is that i reflected on my undergrad which was at york university and took in that i really only have been taught by one black uh person and it was my one professor for african studies so i think it’s really interesting that we also find a way of kind of segregating ourselves to certain areas that we think are where we belong not to discredit anybody in um academia that is cultural like african studies but it’s usually those type of areas of um work that you see people like us being represented so i think that um people like Monique and Bri being in an area where it is predominantly filled with white people is just like incredible because it’s a step in the right direction because as Bri was saying it really does begin with yourself and acknowledging that we are our first biggest barriers so yeah that was my little comment.
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[Monique] Awesome, thank you. Anyone else wish to comment or ask us or ask any questions at this point is that a hand up or just a like yay
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[Noor] I’m just copying.
0:38:13.760,0:38:47.000
[Monique] It’s calling you out. Clearly, clearly, clearly, okay well um i think that a lot of kind of what i’ve heard so i’ll keep talking until others want to kind of join in feel free to do that is i’m hearing a lot of kind of like don’t let anyone tell you who you are you need to tell them who you are um and so and a lot of that has to do sort of with um really thinking about your own identity as well and how how you form that how you how that’s shaped and and sort of what are the factors that um contribute to that formation of identity for you as a black person uh Jean you had your hand raised?
0:38:47.000,0:39:56.320
[Jean] Yeah, um going back to your point about representation there’s also i guess it’s a small piece that’s left out usually and i kind of want to ask a question to you Monique and also Najma and Bri what you guys think about this and how we can fix this but the representation of black men in higher levels of academia especially in psychology as and in Canada is really it’s dire and i don’t know if like how to like what it is that we need to do to inspire more black men to think about actually going into higher levels of academia i mean i’m doing what i can do but i do think there’s a litany of ideas out there um that i can sort of add to my arsenal but we never talk about these things so I, I do want to kind of ask that question what do you guys think should be done how do we sort of move from here to more representation especially for black men these days?
0:39:56.320,0:39:58.960
[Monique] Who wants to start?
0:39:58.960,0:39:59.000
[Bri Darboh] I’ll tag on to it.
0:40:00.000,0:42:13.000
[Monique] Sure, um you know that’s that’s actually a very tough question and i think that that question is is broader in terms of as well how do we even um and they said keep people in the pipeline so i think we have to go back to even before you know pre university um and go to the um high school level where those are the kids that are predominantly being suspended um and not even given an opportunity to finish high school and therefore again they’re slotted into then positions where they have to be in a job or have employment where they perhaps then because of they don’t have the education it’s a certain then job that they’re there they’re driving a truck or they’re doing something i’m not saying that that’s there’s nothing wrong with that i’m saying like that is the consequence of and so if we are to talk about it we have to go back further than just what’s happening university level and this is something i think i it is true also for just getting minority minority uh those uh and minority into the system they have to stay in the system first to kind of move through the system we’re already a smaller group so but if you’re being called you know if if you’re not a part of that group moving forward and we’re losing some along the way by the time we get to the university level higher and higher it becomes fewer and fewer and fewer and fewer and fewer and so i think part of it is start in there and then but i also think that uh and this is something that i uh certainly am not as well read on and I, I should have started off with saying that none of us are experts here at all but the idea of um why would and i think it’s predominantly true also just in psychology that they’re more females than males in general and then kind of what would be and that’s just for psychology but um what would be some of the things that um would be attractive to or would or we feel like the um black male population would want to be able to do in such a set in and so i guess that’s a question i’m also throwing back to, to you Jean because obviously you’re here and there’s a reason why you were here what were some of the things that you know inspired you to continue on I mean I think we also have to get at that as well.
0:42:13.000,0:43:17.520
[Bri Darboh] Yeah, I, I absolutely agree with all of those points, um I think that it’s really important for us to consider taking this conversation down a few levels starting at the high school level maybe even elementary school creating that narrative early on so that it becomes deeply ingrained in people’s minds while they’re still at these impressionable ages that they do have the skills and the abilities and the opportunities to pursue those sorts of avenues i absolutely agree with you Monique that those are not the sorts of conversations going on at that level with those sorts of populations and i think that organizations like BSIP could consider those sorts of outreach um sort of outlets maybe we could have talks at high schools where we have similar conversations like this where we get people thinking about these things early so that they can start to develop strategies and skills to navigate it appropriately once they get to that level. Um, Edman, I think you want to say something as well.
0:43:19.280,0:44:18.000
[Edman] Oh yes, I’m just branching off of your point and Monique’s point i think um you know thinking about it at a younger level uh is definitely one one place to start but you know when we think about the educators and the people who are involved within the education system a lot of people maybe can relate here um you know you have guidance counselors telling you um maybe you shouldn’t take this path maybe you should do applied um and just kind of instilling again like going into what you’re saying earlier like okay maybe i’m not cut out for this and i i know that you know going into STEM i was at U of T before I came to York um there were even professors in the biology department telling me oh maybe you should think about a different path maybe this isn’t what you want um so i think we need to also disentangle um and also educate at the same time.
0:44:18.000,0:45:22.960
[Bri Darboh] Absolutely, I think that’s a really good point it’s those those sort of things are are not just not being actively encouraged but in many cases these sort of routes are being discouraged especially when you consider um certain areas where it’s lower SES and um a certain culture is more common there that leads people down a more perilous path it’s absolutely the case that they’re not receiving that that confidence boost or that push in the right direction from the people who should be supporting them most and and i do feel like there there is some sort of pressure for us who are involved in these sort of conversations who have this sort of urge towards advocacy to step in in those stages we can’t necessarily correct the educational system we can’t train every single teacher in a high school to say the right thing to their black or colored student but we can try to do what we can by having events like this at those sorts of levels I think.
0:45:22.960,0:45:24.000
[Monique] Najma, do you want to jump in here?
0:45:24.000,0:46:27.920
[Najma] Sure, yeah, I think i was just also thinking about you know the ways in which capitalism has disproportionately affected black people and i think that you know it’s it’s there are also like financial barriers to uh black men and black people in general um entering university and i think that like you said like you said Monique about um people who have to work and like provide for a family at a young age like these are the kinds of structural injustices that um are harder for us to like remedy like there needs to be uh more like in my mind in a way there needs to be like structural change like there needs to actually be like fun put forward and like wait like money that people like material change that um people can access like people who have been disproportionately harmed by you know colonialism and capitalism.
0:46:27.920,0:46:30.000
[Monique] Sofia, you wanted to say something?
0:46:32.000,0:49:09.680
[Sofia] Hi, everyone. I’m sorry my camera is off um I was listening and i’m just also getting ready for a moon i am a thank you for uh Monique for inviting me to this safe space um i was an ex not an ex that’s not the correct word i am a york university alumni from a very not a very long time ago but from 2013 um i am now a 1L student at ryerson law school um and the founder and co-president of the black law students association i’m also a first generation student first of my family to do pretty much thank you to do pretty much anything that has to do with any kind of higher education post-secondary or professional work um and i just wanted to say that i think it’s important to remember that when it comes to ideas of belongingness as black people we often feel what’s called imposter syndrome um especially in educational institutions i you know did very well when i was at york i graduated with distinction i i entered a law school with uh on a scholarship and you know got a bunch of awards but i still um have that feeling um i think it’s imperative that we remember that when we are when we are taking up space in higher education and in academia that we are there for a reason um i think it’s crucial to remember that in our time there we have to be truly intentional with everything that is it is that we are doing and wish to do um and one of the main ways to do that in my opinion is that you know we have to remember that it’s important to create a new or not maybe not necessarily new or different i would say narrative for yourself for the black community for those who wish to see someone that looks like them do it i mean that’s what drives me i’m not sure what drives everybody else on this call and aside from the systemic racism we have to experience when in these spaces by allowing imposter syndrome to hold us back and cripple us um we feed into exactly what it is that these racists you know white supremacist institutions want us to do um which is basically to give up so that these spaces can remain um in the color that they would they wish to be so i just think that it’s important that um uh you recognize that you will probably continue to have that feeling of imposter syndrome but to just remember your why and to remember remember exactly what it is that you wish to accomplish when you’re in these spaces and to understand that we when you are in those spaces we do have a very a very big responsibility um because again we are we are a lot of the times we are doing it for people that that look like us that wish to do the same thing.
0:49:12.640,0:49:17.760
[Monique] Amazing. Thank you, I see someone other hands raised now. Um, Amaka, please go.
0:49:20.240,0:52:13.040
[Amaka] Um, first of all thank you so much for this space i was telling Monique like i’m coming here like super thirsty like this is an oasis for me um the thirsty in a good way guys but just that i really need this and i know that a lot of us really need this but um Nyiesha thank you so much for what you shared what you said about having a voice i think i want to unpack that more because i am someone who who just how i am i’ve learned to live with it it tends to be more vulnerable tends to be okay with being vulnerable oh so um i’m not i’m always kind of fighting with how that is received um and so now um what Nyiesha said about being in a space and having a voice and how important that is um in this season of my life i’ve become very aware of the importance of what i’m saying um what am i saying i i realized that i needed to kind of step away but before i even go there what what i’m really interested in is like how being a black woman being a black person um who can’t afford to be naive or to be ignorant about the reality in which i exist um haven’t been that person that naive person and i was told very quickly like okay girl like you know as an artist writing poems like okay but why aren’t your poems talking about like black history month and this and that and that um be feeling kind of policed in that way not having the space to just to be a feeling human being um to ebb and flow like peace said in the chat um anyway so you know kind of navigating that how to be a black woman to be a person how to just be a human being um without at the same time being on a rage all the time like James Baldwin said James Baldwin, said that to be a black person and to be even remotely aware is to be in a rage all the time so how can i be aware not naive um but also be a person like you know how do i navigate that how can i be both those things and i think that’s where kind of mental health that’s i’m really interested in like going deep into that in terms of how like my mental health how that’s going to be um and also that feeds a lot of what i say um when i’m in a space that that feeds the way that i react when someone says something that’s triggering and then i’m able to speak it feeds the way i speak do you understand what i mean um that rage that can be possible when you’re very consumed by what you see around you that this how dismal it is a lot of the time but anyway i don’t know if that is even an articulated question but i’m just trying to understand um how to navigate that how to find balance in that.
0:52:16.080,0:58:55.760
[Monique] let me just see if there’s any other hands um okay no i mean i think Amaka i think that you know you’ve also hit nail at the head where it sort of comes back to what i was talking about at the beginning of how do you actually take care of your own self and sort of help to sort of build your identity um as sort of a person and then of course there’s the i think of it as sort of these sections even though sometimes it can feel like there’s they’re all intertwined where i am a human being and therefore i have similar needs to everybody else in the human race and part of that is um you know basic needs plus also i need to be taking care of myself and then on top of that is sort of sort of my physical being of being a black person and sometimes those things kind of you know get sort of intertwined and we forget to sort of unpack those in a way that we’re protecting our own space and building our identity so that we are strong emotionally and mentally and all these other things and i think a lot of it has to do with i think we have these conversations a lot Amaka around identity and what does that look like for you in other words who are you as a person and what do you stand for should be at the forefront always in terms of um being able to build yourself up and so one of the things that i i always say is that if i always allowed sort of these are external forces to dictate who i am then i would not be here right now and and i i think that is because as i move through the different spaces and we’re not talking about moving through the different spaces in a fluid way in a way where there weren’t barriers we’re talking about each at each and every moment there was a point at which i decided that what was that what was the lesson here what what was the part of this that i need to get out of it and what was the part that i need to let go and keep moving and what did it tell me about myself so did i feel comfortable in that space or was i uncomfortable in that space and when that occurred again was i still uncomfortable because those are the sort of internal checks that you also have to do for yourself and if there’s a lot of spaces in which you’re feeling uncomfortable all the time those spaces are probably not for you um and and so and then in other instances it’s okay um i got something out of this not the full thing but here’s kind of what i know i can contribute and a lot of times is when we really feel that we are at a position where we really know what we contribute and we really know what we’re good at that other people also see that sometimes not immediately sometimes yes you still have to prove yourself and that’s where then to me that the barrier kind of meets that part of the identity that you’re trying to form because it’s like how then do you navigate that space and so i think a lot of the other conversation has to do with um i think a lot of what nigel was talking about what are the common characteristics what are this where where where do we find common ground and maybe you sort of build a relationship like that in pieces and at the same time you don’t discredit yourself. And i think that goes back to what Bri was talking about and sort of moving forward because you are worthy of that um and i think that that’s part of how at least i i see that process and again this is just talk the work is hard so i want people to feel that the work is not hard.
Okay um i just kind of want to quickly just look at some of the comments that came through um and you know i was feel free to jump in so Jalene earlier talked about um discrimination in young black males facing the education system begins in elementary school i do believe strategies to rectify those injustices begin in elementary school too like i mean i’ve heard of young black males and females and little girls and boys being um suspended from school i’m like really a four-year-old or five-year-old like what are you talking about um come on like we have no other supports for these people but to like say bye you’re not you don’t belong here in this moment um so those are those are obviously things that are problematic as well uh peace i’m thinking about your commentary about the strong black woman trope and how black people carry that to assert ourselves when truly all we want to do is just ebb and flow then there’s that part where black students are just driven uh sorry given passes for the only reason that no one believes in them it does not see the need to push them further or even the black student who’s seen as the clown of the class because they make jokes a lot and so again it’s i think some of that has to come back to understanding culture understanding community understanding where people are coming from and um if that’s not understood by the people who are in authority or in that room then it’s gonna be seen as disruptive behavior or behavior not of the norm um so to speak and uh Ava unfortunately racism is embedded in capitalism always has been and Marc – Jean Marc is like yes this is true agreed um again a lot of these things are intertwined and that’s why it’s hard to always unpack and really try to navigate those spaces because of that umpeace uh bless bless you this this conversation makes me feel seen heard and understood i think that’s all we wanted from this conversation um in in in in the first part of that there was this space that was created for you guys to be feel seen be seen being heard and also a safe space for you because i think that that is something that many people would argue that they didn’t feel like they could have before and so that’s why i kind of gave my props to BSIP and to Calumet and Stong for creating these spaces where people could feel like it was safe and they could be heard and understood.
Um okay let me just keep seeing what else is here. Carolyn, do you want to, you want to talk or do you just want me to read your comment? Um, feel free if you want to jump in um a few years ago i started reframing my conversations with self to see an imposter syndrome as imposter syndrome moments and to consider the systems of inequities that may be driving the psychological impact of the patriarchy or white supremacy versus our skills our abilities. This reframe can create space to help us navigate those moments with less emotional attacks and labor and to create more space to celebrate ourselves and our creativity and our brilliance um agreed uh caroline is uh certainly someone who has uh been a champion uh for um black people in the workplace um carolyn i don’t know if you wanna unmute and talk a little bit about your journey um to that space um if you do feel free but i’ll if not i’ll keep going up with you.
0:58:55.760,0:58:57.000
[Carolyn] Ijust didn’t want to take any more space and just -
0:58:57.000,0:58:59.920
[Monique] no no no please please do please do.
0:58:59.920,1:00:47.000
[Carolyn] Yeah, good afternoon everyone thank you. Thanks, thanks for having me it’s been such a great discussion um so i work mostly after 20 years so the the reason i shed the reframe um 20 years working on basic also with the immigrant mindset bree and i relate so much to a lot of you who mentioned about having that immigrant coming here uh from the caribbean and after spending about 22 years in the financial industry on on bay street it can take a toll on young to be quite honest it’s the emotional tax that was the final um and the racial macro aggressions was the final push for me and for the past three years we’ve been working with organizations to better understand and also to create psychologically safe workplaces for black individuals and the toll you know just as you know Monique mentioned it’s and we’ve been conducting a lot of listening circles as well with a lot of black employees and everything that has been shared especially in the group chat and has been shared verbally um we’re still seeing that today it still exists and it’s still there so um just know that we are constantly working to see how we can make this world a better place and as part of that to just not forget how amazing and brilliant and just fantastic you are um and to take time off to also just to celebrate yourself because the burnout is real the burnout is so real um and sometimes you know and even with the imposter syndrome and i’ll share with with Monique and the rest of the community when it’s ready we’re actually working on a reframe for imposter syndrome moments which is an assessment to help us to consider the systems of inequities first before we consider whether it’s ourselves and who we are and our work because we are fantastic we’re magic we’re amazing and the systems can sometimes push us to forget that so thank you super grateful to be here and thank
you for the opportunity to talk
1:00:47.000,1:01:09.406
[Monique] Thank you, Edman?
1:00:49.680,1:01:09.406
[Edman] Well, I just had a question um for any – Monique or Bri or Najma or anyone who’d like to answer that you know we were talking about the lack of representation and how does that make you feel or like going through your experience what did it mean being that like token that only token black person and being kind of like responsible having to hold up -
1:01:09.406,1:01:39.000
[Carolyn] – and that study is coming out later on in the next couple of months and we’re looking at what exactly do we need not looking at psychological safety from the workplace experience but looking at it specifically from our lens and who we are so that we can inform workplaces what they need to do to ensure that even before a black employee comes to work here are the things you need to put in place so we’re doing this study with yes can you hear me.
Oh. Hello? Uh no, did you hear me?
1:01:39.000,1:01:44.000
[Monique] Yeah, something weird happened there I’m not sure what it is.
1:01:44.000,1:01:51.680
[Carolyn] Aww, you didn’t hear me.
1:01:51.680,1:01:55.000
[Carolyn] We can hear you now. you can– we can hear you now, yeah
you can continue.
1:01:55.000,1:01:57.680
[Carolyn] Okay, where did I stop did you hear about the study that we’re doing?
1:02:00.000,1:02:08.000
[Monique] I think you were at the imposter syndrome moment and I thought you had ended there but then we didn’t hear anything else after that because we went to somehow different questions yes we’re going
1:02:08.000,1:03:05.120
[Carolyn] Okay, yes no just saying yeah with the impostor syndrome moment we are creating a you know an assessment that’s coming out to just help folks to refrain and to understand to to first question the systems of inequities before requesting ourselves because the current research right now in imposter syndrome it’s very it’s driven towards what are you doing right you don’t feel lucky or you feel you’re the only and the other and but we have to also take a look at how are the systems contributed and the last thing i shared quickly was we’re actually creating embarking on probably the largest study that we’ve done taking a look at psychological safety in the workplace but through the lens of the black experience specifically um so that we can better understand what employees need to do on the onboarding side on the employee experience journey side to ensure that psychological safety is embedded in every part of the process but coming from directly from our experience and really happy to work with you know Monique and the rest of the group and Jalene to bring this research to light. So, thank you.
1:03:06.720,1:07:10.240
[Monique] Amazing, thank you so much. Um, okay. Edman, you had a question about i think uh navigating um, in the space when you’re the only — the only black person i think that was your question? Okay amazing. Um, oh dear. Okay, so if I talk about myself right now I am now too old to care. That’s just me being blunt now. You guys know that this is going to come out, right? Um i i am at the point where i know myself enough that um i’m not saying that things would not necessarily affect me but it doesn’t it rolls off now um when you come to a point where you understand what’s your contribution you understand and you figure out where what is your space to make a difference or to empower people or to do those things then pretty much a lot of other things become noise having said that um let’s sort of move back to the Monique that probably uh came here uh to do a masters and then was in that space um there were things that would be that would be said and i will be silent because i wasn’t sure what to do about that or what does that mean um eventually one of the things i started to do was to get people to explain themselves because what better way for you to understand that maybe you said something that you shouldn’t have but you gotta explain why you said that to me um in some instances it wasn’t worth the effort so i just told them off and in some of the instances i decided to um that it was a moment to educate because i felt the person was able to wanted or was in a position to receive that so i think that along the way i kind of um went through these different cycles and determined the way that i dealt with it of if i said this what is it going to do versus i need to say something um because otherwise this is going to always be the narrative so you know and and in some instances it was also just trying to understand where it was um. Is that question because you think i don’t deserve it as a black person or is this question coming from a different place and those are the hard ones sometimes to navigate and and so that’s why in explaining yourself uh hopefully we can unpack that and then we can sort of begin some education because i believe that not everyone will – would want to receive um being told that this is how they made them feel because the other person is going to be like okay now i’m not a bad person what do you mean i was racist or i’m not this what do you mean and and and those are obviously difficult conversations to have to have right and so part of it really is i think around feeling out feeling that out in some instances particularly in a situation where there’s a position of power so when i talk about position of power now um i see my friend Julie here she is sometimes the person that um sees my face and just she puts the words to my face for me um that sounds bad but she’s like my ally in some instances where i might not want to say something or i’m i’m too annoyed to say some something in a way that it might come across the way it should and so somehow julie is like so what about this and i’m like uh look at her go good good job um and so again it’s also about sort of having some ally ships as well along the way um that those are people who can support you because you might not at that point be in the space to or you might be too vulnerable at that point to be the person to speak up and i think again sort of recognizing that as well um does that help to answer your question Edman?
1:07:11.520,1:07:33.840
[Edman] yeah it definitely does it does frame it in a good way i think um you know we have this like two opposing narratives it’s like you know if you do speak up you’re like the angry black woman and then then there’s the oh you have to be a strong black woman so i feel like those are like you know two opposing things i don’t know but um yeah that definitely clears it up thank you.
1:07:34.720,1:08:35.680
[Julie] You do need to — I’ll jump in for a second you do need to make sure you find someone who can read your mind in the way that i can read um but i i agree you know i think it’s it’s i didn’t want to speak up because i don’t love i’m not going to take a lot of space here but i do think this is something that allies can do is to sort of be noticing what’s going on in the room and be like hey you know here’s this conversation it’s going this direction i know Monique is the only black person in the room am i really going to put it on her to be the one to bring up this issue. No, I can do that and the stuff that you know Monique was bringing up as well about explanation you know i found as a white person in these spaces there’s been lots of instances where people have said things to me that have been inappropriate and instead of just like letting it pass you know you’re in a situation where you can be like hey can you explain what you meant i don’t think i understand what you’re saying because it sounds kind of racist and you know i think that, that can come across very differently from another white person where maybe that’s like a learning moment instead of some sort of aggressive thing i’m i hope i’m not saying this wrong i just think it’s a moment where allies can be useful as well and and sort of like take space in an appropriate way that is helpful.
1:08:35.680,1:08:45.000
[Monique] Thanks, Julie. Rita did you want to add? Or Najma to um Edman’s question? And then joan I’ll come to you, I haven’t forgotten.
1:08:45.000,1:10:01.840
[Bri Darboh] Yeah, I was just going to say um in looking at the question differently um in thinking about situations where there isn’t necessarily some sort of verbal exchange it’s just the context itself you walk into that room on orientation day for example i can remember uh walking into the room and feeling like oh my gosh like i don’t really belong here um nobody looks like me in this room in any way and feeling burdened with a range of feelings of of incompetence and inadequacy and wondering how it is that I got to this point and others who look like me didn’t and i think um aligned with what um Carolyn was saying you know it’s it’s about the art of reframing in those situations in order to be able to endure them to not look at it from the perspective that you aren’t competent enough to be in that room and you were maybe luck of the draw the one token black person who got chosen to fill some sort of affirmative action requirement looking at it as wow i must be pretty incredible if against all odds and all of these statistics i’m standing in this room today amongst all of these people i think is really important.
1:10:03.840,1:10:05.000
[Monique] Najma, anything to add?
1:10:05.000,1:12:22.000
[Najma] Yeah, um just to go off of what Bri was saying i think that for me well first of all i think that being in those spaces that are predominantly white is not that different than navigating the world like we live in a culture that is dominated by like white supremacy and so i feel like we all like as black people often already have experience in like navigating those difficult situations and i feel like what it feels like for me is that i see these people like i feel like as a black person able to clock like where a white person is at on their journey of like unlearning white supremacy so fast like i can tell if they’re like seeking my approval or like not haven’t even started like haven’t even thought of white supremacy ever or like you know i can see where they are on their journey of like allyship quote-unquote or like lack thereof and i can in that space i can see that they don’t see me so it almost feels like strangely powerful like i’m like i see you and i know who you are and what you are and like all that led like i see more than you see because of my blackness and because of the invisibility that i have so like with from within that space i just like choose my battles like i pick my battles like if there’s somebody who like wants my approval in like an allyship type of way and that person’s like Monique was saying like that person um seems to like could have capacity to like learn something then i might put some energy there but if it’s somebody who for example like in a class there was a girl who used to always talk to me like this girl like there’s a white girl who used to always talk to me like that but she never talked to anybody else like that and i was just like i’m not i’m just like not even gonna put my energy there I like see you i understand you i understand why you’re doing this and it’s like i just feel so above it you know and i feel like we just have we navigate the world like that like like whiteness doesn’t see us but we see whiteness and I think that’s like that can be like a pretty powerful experience in my opinion.
1:12:22.000,1:12:30.880
[Jalene] Powerful and advantageous. Giving you that sort of one-up in terms of insights on what’s really going on in reality.
1:12:32.320,1:12:35.000
[Najma] Totally.
1:12:35.000,1:12:36.000
[Monique] Jean?
1:12:36.000,1:14:33.040
[Jean] Just to add to Najma’s point I think a lot of people especially a lot of black people are kind of afraid they’re scared of stepping into that space and feeling like you know maybe i am being um as reductionist as those who would tend to push forward a theory of superiority when you say that but really it’s it’s the importance of that being right so like uh i forget if it was back*mack who asked the question how do you be how how are you going to be that person in that space and i think that that sort of answers the question Edman you’re asking where it’s like this is who i am this is what i am in this moment and i think it’s also important to understand that it’s not just for the black person who is being it’s also for the ally who is being because you have to understand who am i in this moment right here right now and that sort of gives you the insight the mindfulness to actually understand what situation you’re actually in what the other person’s going through what the other person sees in terms of the situation itself and it’s very much it keeps me right into what Julie nd Monique do like i see it every day and i i’m like right in that poll between you know uh understanding what uh Julie sees from what Monique is doing with her face and you’re like okay so there is something that uh Julie is reading from this situation but that’s because she understands who she is in that moment it’s being who you are understanding your identity understanding the situation understanding the other person but you can’t ever understand the other person without ever being mindful of the situation so it’s all about mindfulness. Breanna, your microphone is off.
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[Monique] Breanna, are you gonna chat with us?
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[Breanna] Oh, sorry.
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[Jean] Yeah, as i was saying you know i i i think the conversation is really important to talk about being and uh who you are and what situation you’re in and i think this also goes back to my previous question about like why it seems that black men don’t feel they should be involved because the uh society sees them as you know or sees us as sort of troublemakers right and what we don’t understand is that what they view is through their lens of of stereot- uh stereotypical prototypes so they see us through something that they’ve already classed and then we set we tend to class ourselves in the way that they see us telling ourselves that hey maybe you know that’s not for me i don’t need to be there but you’ll never really understand what someone sees until you really understand what that person is who that person is who you are in that situation so for me it’s it’s all about being so i think that’s just the comments to Najma and Edman’s question there.
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[Monique] Noor, I think you have – thank you Jean. You know I think you had a uh your hand up is this up for real now?
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[Noor] Yes, um I just wanted to say a point i Bri brought up a really good point about stereotypes um and i think that recognizing that black people it’s it’s so exhausting to navigate through spaces where you’re the only black person but also kind of micromanaging your every move so you don’t accidentally perpetuate the stereotype or the rhetoric that people put out there about black people so am I articulating myself in a way that you know shows that I’m knowledgeable about a certain topic you know what am I wearing am I you know having a straight face and I’m showing that I’m like an angry black person like I feel like it’s very exhausting um to kind of regulate your your actions in every move but I feel like as black people we do do it maybe subconsciously and we don’t feel like we’re doing it but over time it can become exhaustive so I just kind of want to have that.
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[Monique] Amazing, um any other contributions i see that we are at 5:25 and i know that this session was for an oh we got some more hands raised um hopefully i first need to find it uh Amaka do you want to go again?
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[Amaka] Yeah, it was just very quickly like that nothing again about identity and being um i think it’s kind of been said you know we tend to be very hyper aware of the environment the external environment and the boxes that are kind of allocated depending on who you are and color your skin and things like that um i can it can be one can be so caught up in that that you don’t take pay enough attention to your actual self your particular self right um and i and i know this because i have been able to live in different contexts um i’ve had the opportunity to live in nigeria where blackness is just is not even a thing you’re just a human being and i’ve had the opportunity to kind of unpack who i am for a bit at least experientially before i then had to move um to you know the uk and then moved here and then became aware that okay there’s a particular thing called being black and i have to do that thing um so yeah i guess like for me i’m just thinking about because i have a little baby niece now and i’m just thinking if i can over protect you for as long as i can so that you can get to know yourself first before then you know looking at roles and things like that then i will i don’t know how but um i think it just finding spaces to just be who we are um authentically vulnerably all of that i think that’s what we all just need so thank you so much Monique and uh and everyone for putting this together so needed.
1:18:48.880,1:20:20.000
[Monique] Amazing i’m just gonna just go one more round now as Jennine mentioned earlier in the chat um we at some point stop this recording and people can stay on who want you know if you want to continue this conversation but i feel like uh it’s around almost 5:30 so um maybe we do a little bit of a wrap-up for any last thoughts um and i think uh Jennine uh well it’s Jimmy and Bayley i guess because i’m not running this the zoom session but uh um feel free to i guess stick around for a few more minutes after if you also want to have a different conversation um because sometimes you know people want to have that more raw conversation maybe when the recording is stopped so yeah yeah so maybe we do that right now um and i’ll just uh pause then to say uh thank you again to Jennine, Mazzen, Bayley and all the others behind the scenes that worked on putting this up uh together peace thank you so much for putting yourself out there and for reading your poem i heard it was one of your hidden talents and it was amazing thank you so much thank you to Bri and Najma for agreeing so readily also to be a part of this um and uh to um i had some people planned it okay let’s be real so Jean and Nyiesha and all the other people who were here to kind of just jump in as well and keep the conversation going i appreciate it and those uh mechanics from you know outside of of the university uh just to be a part of this as well we certainly do appreciate it and it’s a friday at four and i was like okay we get 10 people we’ve got a good conversation but we end up with twice that and i i truly appreciate it um Bri any last words.
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[Bri Darboh] um just thought this was really wonderful and insightful i think that it’s really great for us to have conversations like this and I hope for there to be more opportunities for these sorts of platforms in the future.
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[Monique] Najma, any last words?
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[Najma] yeah, just thank you so much for inviting me and for everyone for sharing their experiences. I also found it just really enriching and great I’m, I’m really glad I got to be here.
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[Monique] thank you so much all, right guys, I guess we can stop recording at this point unless uh, Jennine and Mazen you might want to say a few words at the end as well.
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[Jennine] Very briefly, so i also want to thank Monique, Bri, Najma and Peace um you started by saying to know yourself and to tell your stories and you definitely have told us parts of your stories and i really do appreciate you choosing the Calumet and Stong Colleges to be a platform where you can share and i hope um you know that your stories are being heard and we can do this more often we’re more than happy to not just support black history month but the whole year and the years going forward in the years in the past um you know you’re all strong beautiful insightful and have lots of wisdom to share and i just echo a bit of Monique because i as a brown woman so i’m Guyanese background both my parents are from guyana it is a different experience and um i have gotten to the point in undergrad i think it would have been nice i grew up in Northern Ontario in thunder bay so there was no um there was some minorities but my dad was in in academics so it was looking back that was so helpful to have a person who was an ally for me in that environment and you do get a point where i know i’m not going to see a lot of brown or black people and you you kind of adapt but it’s it’s a bit unfortunate that you have to adapt to that um so anyways a side story i don’t want to take space either but i do want to thank you very much for sharing your stories and we look forward to um doing more of this but do reach out to us you’ll get a form in the in your email to give some feedback and if there’s more that we can do here to support you we’re more than happy to do that did you want to say anything Mazen?
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[Mazen] Yes, you thank you very much, Jennine thank you everyone for making this a wonderful session this rich conversation uh may be salient for black uh history month however i think this resonates with every human being and no matter the background or the heritage or the ethnic background or any any diversity that they come from so we hope to continue the discussion and we hope to ensure to support everyone so they can move forward and we live an equitable and diverse uh and inclusive society thank you very much for this.
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[Jennine] and thank you Bayley for organizing it with us.